Smelting returns [Researching]

[Blackadder]

I think the %'s are a bit off with smelting....
As an example:
I smelted 555 Verite ore one piece at a time.
GM miner with +20 leather mining gloves, giving 120 mining skill
According to stratics mining dictates which metals you can smelt by your skill level, and also shows you the increase in return % when wearing gloves.

At GM level you should be seeing a 60% return of ingots from your ore
At 105 mining you should be seeing a 70% return of ingots from your ore

In an ideal world and going by the 10% increase they give for an extra 5 points of skill then an extra 20 points of skill should put you at 100% return

So back to my little experiment
Mining skill 120
I smelted 555 pieces of Verite ore, one piece at a time
I returned 664 ingots for my troubles

It looks from this that the extra points from the +20 gloves are not being calculated above the first 5..........

Valorite return is just pitifull considering the effort you have to go through to get the stuff.....

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37554

[Death]

I can almost guarantee that the 20+ bonus is not being applied in full. Last time we checked out that system, there were issues when dealing with bonuses over +5. The system was coded manually to give bonuses to the gloves, only to +5 skill. This is the reason why 120 mining scrolls no longer exist, because they didn't work in unison with glove bonuses.

Knowing runuo, there is probably a hard cap in place to prevent 120 mining from ever happening in the mining calculations, thus a 105 mining cap may exist somewhere in the code.

That being said, there is a lot at work here:

A) The mining system itself has not been updated in a while. Percents, timing, ore graphics, clilocs, you name it, will need to be updated at some point in time. What you read on stratics or uo guide in terms of percents, may not apply to AOV (at this point in time anyways).

The system most likely has some kind of cap in the code somewhere if the percents are not raising above 105 mining skill. This is, of course, just a theory based on previous experience working with the code (I can't actually check this from my current location).

Be that as it may, we'll add in a ticket to check this out as it was believed that the mining bonus being extended to +20 would be auto managed but if the percents seem off, then there's most likely another piece of the puzzle that has to be put in.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37556

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

sometimes it does seem slow. Mine with gargy picks and prospector tools, they will help your higher end ingot rate out a lot. Sometimes you can get 2 or 3 val elementals from a single ore vein.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37558

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah the way they coded that is a real mess. The gloves don't actually give + mining beyond the cap, what happens is the skill checks to see if you are wearing the gloves. So this check needs to be everywhere that has to do with mining, and it probably is not. What they should have done is added a hidden property to increase the skill cap so that it works like any other property but they did not.

One large project I need to eventually start on is rewrite all property, skill, material, loot etc etc systems. It all ties together and it currently is really messy.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37559

[Blackadder]

Thanks guys...
Its not actualy the mining i'm concerned about (although it would be nice for a tiny boost)
Its the smelting of the ore......the returns are consistent with a +5 glove and not the +20 glove....
Considering how many ingots are needed for the quests the return on smelting the ore is woefully low....

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37561

[Blackadder]

+20 mining gloves are a UOV thing?
Stratics and wiki seem to say that the max glove for osi production shards is +5....
The skill gump lists mining as 120 with the gloves on....

No worrys, was just having a whinge as i have spent all week trying to gather ingots to do some smith quests and get the 120 smith scroll.....Could be in for a long ride.....

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37562

[Blackadder]

Knowing runuo, there is probably a hard cap in place to prevent 120 mining from ever happening in the mining calculations, thus a 105 mining cap may exist somewhere in the code.

If this is the case then why do +20 gloves exist?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37563

[azzo29]

yes there is a main issue with smelting as i have even failed to smelt gold ore at gm with +10 mining gloves. its very frustrating to mine all that ore just to lose it in the smelting process

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37564

[Death]

Knowing runuo, there is probably a hard cap in place to prevent 120 mining from ever happening in the mining calculations, thus a 105 mining cap may exist somewhere in the code.

If this is the case then why do +20 gloves exist?

They exist to allow 120 mining. If a cap does exist, it was not put into place by aov coders. What I am saying is there is most likely a cap in place to prevent the smelt chances from having an effect over 105 mining skill (this is unintentional, the percent should be increasing). There's more than 1 script that exists which handles mining and smelt. So as Red mentioned earlier, we might have changed one script and missed another. We'll be looking at the scripts to see what's preventing things from working in its entirety.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37565

[Death]

Will check to see the current percentages and update them if necessary. Will need to check the mining gloves to make sure that all calls to the mining bonuses are being applied (Mining ore type + smelt chance).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:37644

[ggkthx]

Have been looking into this as I have a miner with 115 real mining skill and +20 gloves for a displayed skill of 135.
The 115 seem to work correctly though I can't be positive.
I do not recall ever failing on Verite, but I do fail on Valorite (which is such a kick in the nuts btw, stuff is rare enough and then you fail smelting, ugh)

Seems like the only smelting check is in Ore.cs which calls SkillCheck.cs to do the math but it's determined by Ore.cs
GlovesOfMining.cs controls the skill modifier ofc.

Looking at Mining.cs I'm not sure but are the numbers in

Code: Select all

 HarvestResource( 95.0, 55.0, 135.0, 1007079, typeof( VeriteOre ),		typeof( VeriteGranite )...
new HarvestResource( 99.0, 59.0, 139.0, 1007080, typeof( ValoriteOre ),

for ReqSkill, minSkill, maxSkill, ? Or am I misunderstanding this?
If so I am not sure I get why ReqSkill and minSkill are different unless its a skill gain check thing?
Anyway, if that's correct, or close anyway, maybe it is working as intended?
Because Val has 135.0 and I don't think I've ever failed it, but Val is 139.0 and I do fail it. In which case, sure wish that difficulty was topped out at 135 or there was a way I could get a 120 mining still or +25 gloves lol.

Anyway, its funny cuz when I started reading this and looking through the code it was to add my experiences with how it maybe isn't working right, except, after doing so I think that it actually is (unless I'm not understanding those numbers correctly) but it still bums me out cuz now I know I'm doomed to randomly destroy precious valorite ingots.
Mining is a weird case where less than max skill is really bad compared to max skill. Because at less than max you lower your chances of getting the rarest resource so even though I have max mining and smelting chances for the others I still need to mine enough to get enough Valorite, in which case I'd get plenty of the other colors in the process anyway.
Even though lumberjacking is similar, and suffers from having no skill bonus items like mining, it somehow doesn't seem as bad in my experience as mining does, perhaps due to less resource types and no 'smelting' check to burn what you've already harvested.
Why did UO developers hate miners/smiths I'm wondering. Or did their quest for realism of sorts result in undue suffering for crafters? (particularly miners/smiths)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:38087

[Death]

Have been looking into this as I have a miner with 115 real mining skill and +20 gloves for a displayed skill of 135.
The 115 seem to work correctly though I can't be positive.
I do not recall ever failing on Verite, but I do fail on Valorite (which is such a kick in the nuts btw, stuff is rare enough and then you fail smelting, ugh)

Seems like the only smelting check is in Ore.cs which calls SkillCheck.cs to do the math but it's determined by Ore.cs
GlovesOfMining.cs controls the skill modifier ofc.

Looking at Mining.cs I'm not sure but are the numbers in

Code: Select all

 HarvestResource( 95.0, 55.0, 135.0, 1007079, typeof( VeriteOre ),		typeof( VeriteGranite )...
new HarvestResource( 99.0, 59.0, 139.0, 1007080, typeof( ValoriteOre ),

for ReqSkill, minSkill, maxSkill, ? Or am I misunderstanding this?
If so I am not sure I get why ReqSkill and minSkill are different unless its a skill gain check thing?
Anyway, if that's correct, or close anyway, maybe it is working as intended?
Because Val has 135.0 and I don't think I've ever failed it, but Val is 139.0 and I do fail it. In which case, sure wish that difficulty was topped out at 135 or there was a way I could get a 120 mining still or +25 gloves lol.

Anyway, its funny cuz when I started reading this and looking through the code it was to add my experiences with how it maybe isn't working right, except, after doing so I think that it actually is (unless I'm not understanding those numbers correctly) but it still bums me out cuz now I know I'm doomed to randomly destroy precious valorite ingots.
Mining is a weird case where less than max skill is really bad compared to max skill. Because at less than max you lower your chances of getting the rarest resource so even though I have max mining and smelting chances for the others I still need to mine enough to get enough Valorite, in which case I'd get plenty of the other colors in the process anyway.
Even though lumberjacking is similar, and suffers from having no skill bonus items like mining, it somehow doesn't seem as bad in my experience as mining does, perhaps due to less resource types and no 'smelting' check to burn what you've already harvested.
Why did UO developers hate miners/smiths I'm wondering. Or did their quest for realism of sorts result in undue suffering for crafters? (particularly miners/smiths)

Ya uo devs really hated miners and that smelting chance. They actually added temporary talismans to help with that smelting chance believe it or not:

http://www.uoguide.com/Smelter%27s_Valorite_Talisman

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:6384, old post ID:38091